Was Jesus Ever Tipsy?

And if he was, does that mean being tipsy is not a sin? This is a question I have been wondering lately. I’ve been wondering about drinking for Christians. Where is the line? What is appropriate? I’ve been wondering about it because most of the Christians I associate with drink alcohol, some of them love it, and many churches and pastors I’ve visited this year have promoted alcohol consumption in various ways. But this is soooo different from what I grew up in. The conservative Baptist outlook on alcohol (in which I was reared) was strictly prohibitionist—probably a vestige of cultural influences (American temperance movements, fundamentalism, etc) moreso than careful Biblical exegesis.

But what about alcohol is so inherently bad? The obvious answer is that it leads people to lose their faculties and do dumb things. It causes car accidents and drunk texting. It gives you liver cancer. But all of these negative things happen only when alcohol is consumed in excess. Similar negative outcomes are associated with anything consumed in excess. Eating McDonald’s in excess, for example: makes you obese. Drinking soda in excess: gives you diabetes. Playing Halo in excess: numbs your brain and inhibits you socially. Obsessing about Twilight: crowds out more enriching life pursuits.

But all of these things are good in moderation, even (MAYBE) Twilight.
These are good things—the fruits of this beautiful planet that God created and let us live in. Why should we abstain just because these things might lead to sin?

The Bible does not tell us to abstain. Jesus clearly drank wine. He turned six huge jars of water into wine at the wedding at Cana (John 2: 1-11). Even the evangelical Pope himself will admit it.

“Jesus drank wine,” Billy Graham told the Miami Herald in 1976. “Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding feast. That wasn’t grape juice, as some of them try to claim,” he added.

Drinking wine, and drinking other types of alcohol, can be a wonderful thing in moderation. I’ve come to really appreciate good quality fermented beverages myself. I like listening to classical music on a tired summer night while sipping a cool Pinot Grigio. I like picking up aromas of melon & orange blossom and maybe a hint of coconut. I like a good spicy Shiraz from Australian vineyards or a dark, earthy Sangiovese from under the Tuscan sun. The same goes for a good Chimay trappist ale or a sip of Jefferson Reserve 15 year bourbon. These things are just good things. Like rainbows or organ music or aspen trees in autumn. They are good.

Still, there is the question of how Christians should approach alcohol. Should we just abstain from it, in hopes of keeping ourselves safe from sin and the appearance of any evil? Some would argue that this is the true biblical stance. But theologian Scot McKnight says that this is going beyond what the Bible says—and that if one tries to be “more biblical than the Bible,” they are in danger of zealotry.

If God is God, and if God speaks to us in the Bible, then God spoke words that show that wine drinking is fine. One may choose not to drink, but that view is more extreme than what the Bible says. Drinking too much is contrary to the Bible, but not drinking at all is not what the Bible teaches (except for ascetic strands at time).

So we can drink. But is there a line we shouldn’t cross? When we get a little buzzed or tipsy? Is that unbiblical? The Bible is clear that drunkenness is a sin, but what about the “happy” feeling that you get after a few glasses of wine? What about the social-lubricant function of alcohol that makes us more chatty and affable and friendly? Is this always a bad thing? I’m not sure.

On one hand, I would say this: Some of my best, most “heavenly” moments have come in situations where I’m with friends and there is alcohol present. Whether it is in Oxford with friends at a pub, or in Tokyo with friends at the top of the Park Hyatt, drinking Suntory and looking out over the city, drinking frequently shows up in good and wonderful social memories.

On the other hand, I could say this: Christians are to be set apart from the world. Abstaining from a “worldly” thing like alcohol or infrequently consuming it is one way we can be different. Also, it is true that alcohol can easily lead us to situations of sin. It doesn’t take much to go from alcohol consumption being a neutral activity to it becoming a vice. The vast number of alcoholics in the world can attest to this.

But everything in life is fraught with potential disaster. Our nature infuses everything neutral with the potential to become complicit in evil. The world is beautiful and good, but it can quickly become a playground for licentiousness and depravity. Does that mean we should hide away in a cave somewhere, free of all temptation or potential vice? Should the fact that a juicy hamburger is full of cholesterol and other heart-killing ingredients scare me away from Red Robin forever? Does the potential for lusting after a member of the opposite sex mean that we should never go to the beach? Does the risk of death associated with rock climbing mean we should never attempt to scale a rock face? I don’t think so.

There is a thing called self-control. It’s one of the fruits of the Spirit. Christians have it. It’s a virtue that God gives us so that we can enjoy good things without enjoying them too much. It’s the ability to know when things have gone too far, and the ability to stop at that point. It’s a gift of the Holy Spirit.

And so is a pint of Guinness.

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42 responses to “Was Jesus Ever Tipsy?

  1. I have this conversation with my high school students all the time. My best attempt to strike some kind of balance between freedom and discipline: Does this drink make me more alive to God and my neighbor? When the honest answer to that question is “no,” I think alcohol consumption ceases to be theologically defensible.

  2. Excellent post. I’ve been wondering this myself lately. I share many of your thoughts; including the fact that during many of the best times with my friends, both in becoming closer friends with them and also in just having a memorable fun time, there has been alcohol involved, to the point that a few of us have been tipsy. I think your final position on it is wise; alcohol can be good thing, just like the occasional artery-clogging hamburger.

    To Becky – if you’re going to ask yourself the question about taking a drink making you more alive to God and your neighbor, then you have to ask that question with everything else you do. If you eat that chocolate chip cookie, I’m pretty sure both God and your neighbor won’t particularly rejoice or mourn at this choice, but it doesn’t mean it’s bad. If you decide that a Friends rerun is on and you want to watch it while cathing up with some friends on the couch, it doesn’t have to make you more alive to God and your neighbor for it to be good thing to enjoy.

    This brings up an interesting thought. If alcohol, which is damaging to the body in some ways, even in moderation, is okay, what about other drugs? Like cigarettes? People smoke those in moderation and live into their 80’s.

  3. And a pint of good old Stella Artois is a gift from God too. :-)

  4. As a cradle Catholic (with Celtic ancestry on both sides) I was always taught that alcohol was a part of created beauty. At least–that’s not what was said but implied. There was a sacramentality in enjoying each other’s company while relaxing with a wee bit o sumpin, sumpin.

    The thought about abstinence in order to protect from sin is a concept I’m thinking about in another context–it seems to me that fear of contaminating oneself with sin is not only zealotry but extreme pride. I can think of multiple occasions in life where the good cannot be accomplished without risking the sin inherent in the situation.

    I’m not saying that one should sin in order to accomplish good–that would be moral utilitarianism and it is a heresy. What I am saying is that if we don’t participate in creation out of fear of sin, we are blocking ourselves from grace just as surely as if we blocked grace through intentionally living in sin.

    There are certainly people for whom abstinence is a choice–in some cases its a necessity when they lose all Reason and Will when it enters their body. In others it may be a form of spiritual fasting that is beneficial.

    But to leap from that reality to an accusation of sinfulness in all who partake in creation is an error in thought and lacks the recognizable voice of Reason.

    Great post.

  5. I agree, moderate drinking is okay. Although I must admit that I need to work on the “moderate” part.

  6. Great post, Brett. This subject has come up many times in and around the church I attend in the Deep South (but not Baptist). People tend to fall strongly on onside or the other.

    I like the points you bring up here, especially about moderation for everything and not just alcohol.

    Given the conversation here, I thought you might be interested in Jason Boyett’s article last week for Relevant Magazine “So, is drinking OK?” http://www.relevantmagazine.com/features-reviews/life/1539-alcohol-a-commentary

    I especially like this quote from him (referencing the Christian argument against moral relativism mainstreaming lifestyle sins) “If we can’t drop sins from the list for cultural reasons, wouldn’t it be equally wrong to add them to the list for the same reasons? The opposite of the statement in the paragraph above also applies: If something was not a sin in 1st century Palestine, then it can’t be a sin now. And isn’t making ourselves the definers of sin a little too close to saying we’re better than God? At the least, it’s legalistic and Pharasaical. Remember who Jesus kept calling a “brood of vipers”? Here’s a hint—it wasn’t the immoral, the prostitutes, or the drunkards.”

    Thanks for bringing up such good topics of conversation. Keep ’em coming.

    – Bubba

  7. You’re absolutely right. A pint of Guinness IS a gift from the Holy Spirit!

  8. As a former drunk, being tipsy would be a sin for me. I was an alcoholic before I became a Christian and became sober just before becoming a Christian. I can’t ever drink again, because there’s a big chance I may end up back in the hole. I don’t think it’s wrong for Christians to drink or become a little tipsy, but I can’t ever do it.

  9. great post brett.

    To Brandon S.-I think Becky has a great point. Your questions on the use of other drugs is relevant yes, but honestly we have a question we need to ask ourselves: Are we harming our brothers, sisters and those who don’t know Christ through our choices? If you have children or live with other people and are a smoker, aren’t you inflicting them to second hand smoke- which does cause cancer (http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS). Possibly the answer to your question lies in our motivations. What is our motivation to drink alcohol, eat a Super sized Big Mac or fast food of choice, smoke a cigarette or read Twilight/Danielle Steel books? If my motivation is to have an emotional escape of some kind, whether its living out my fantasies in books or eating, drinking or something else in excess, am I turning to Christ? Or has this action become my identity and where I turn to.

    Mostly, I love that I live in the World’s Microbrew Capital and about an hour away from Willamette Valley Wine Country. Nothing beats a 100+ degree day like a Seasonal Twilight Ale from Deschutes or any Organic from Hopworks Urban Brewery.

  10. sorry about the cancer link, this one should work.
    http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/ETS

  11. Though I do not substantially disagree with Brett’s conclusion that drinking in moderation is not inherently sinful, but I find the post and much of the following discussion extremely disappointing. Folks, can we PLEASE think a little more carefully here?

    First: the exclusive focus on the wedding at Cana passage is a woefully incomplete look scripture on this question. Much more pertinent would be Romans 14 and similar passages. We can’t address this question abstracted from a consideration of how our actions affect those around us. The most important discussion at my church about alcohol, then, has to do not with whether alcohol is justified or enjoyable, but with the AA group that meets in our basement and the recovering alcoholics in the congregation. Likewise, the rather negative response of Wesley and the Methodists to alcohol in the context of their ministry to the working poor of 18th century England may not just be prudishness or zealotry but instead a much more faithful response than musings after drinking with pals on a Tokyo rooftop. This dimension is completely missing above and as a result becomes entirely individualistic.

    Second: the appeal to created goodness is (correct me if I’m wrong, here) a theological error. The important category is not creation alone, but the Incarnation. This is where the wedding at Cana is important and the only way anything here makes sense. In what sense is Jefferson Reserve a part of creation anyway? It’s rather through the framework of the Incarnation that a cooperation between human endeavor and creation like the wine at Cana can be declared good. And in this framework some thought beyond a declaration like Brett’s that some things are ‘just good’ has to go on – a consideration for Christ’s redeeming of creation and how something like alcohol interacts that in the context of the church has to occur. This is the theological gaffe that underlies the blind spot in the post discussed above.

    Finally: can we please note that the post is an example of really poor ethical argumentation? Brett, I got dizzy reading it. The incessant alternating of paragraphs ‘On the one hand [insert pro]’ ‘On the other hand [insert con]’ does not make ordered argument. The examples brought into play are never interrogated: is the analogy between alcohol and eating McDonalds really helpful? Where does it break down, and what is the ethics of eating McDonalds anyway? The representation of the case against drinking as mainly based on an over-scrupulous desire to avoid any approach to sin is, as I noted above, a straw man. From there the hand-wringing over gray areas of tipsiness is not serious ethical thinking but an attempt to make the post last another few paragraphs. The second to last paragraph is basically vacuous; when it almost says something, it says more or less all things in moderation are ok. Do we seriously agree with this? Of course not. The argument is fatuous. The end of the post, with its introduction of the Holy Spirit and self-control, merely begs the question.

    I’m frustrated by the level of discussion here, not so much because I find this question terribly interesting or, relatively, that important. But this sloppy, self-involved, thoughtless discussion happening under the auspices of Christian community is extremely frustrating. I don’t have a lot of patience with the thoughtless nods of approval from commenters either. The post reads like an exercise in entertaining ourselves with making ethical arguments; this sort of careless enjoyment is in serious danger of being onanistic and is not part of faithful practice or witness. Brett and commenters both – let’s try to do better.

  12. Hmm. withastone–I’m wondering if you know that you sound, arrogant, self-serving and condescending?

    I’m not saying you ARE that way, only that you come across that way.

    Maybe you can try to do a little better in adjusting your tone.

    When people name call like you do “sloppy” “self-involved” “thoughtless” they often neglect the irony that they are guilty of the same things they accuse other of.

    And your frustration at the level of discussion might have something to do with the fact that

    IT IS A BLOG.

    You, sir, or m’am, are being horribly impolite and you lack charity.

    • My tone probably does need to be adjusted – my apologies. But I think what I said still stands. There are serious problems here.

      Blog or not, I think some frustration is still valid. Let me posit the following: Talking ethics is an important thing to do in Christian community (and elsewhere). When we do it poorly, that’s a real problem, not just in the sense that we might reach poor conclusions, but also in that we might create habits of poor discussion. This is not good for faithful practice or witness. Am I wrong that if we declare anywhere – blog or otherwise – a space where it’s not incumbent upon us to do our ethics as well as we can (and I think Brett is below his normal standards here) and with real seriousness we’re doing damage? You are correct – for charity’s sake I will back down from my assertions that what’s going on here is self-involved. But if a concern with discussing ethics well gets lost in the enjoyment of tossing around arguments (which I think this post is in danger of) then there’s more than just name-calling going on here – there’s some real danger.

  13. Check out 2 Timothy 4:3
    “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”

    Sounds to me like you’ve tickled our ears with what we want to hear, and skewed the Truth.

    • LOVE your reply. Billy Graham is also answered the following question:

      I have no patience with people who get intoxicated, but do you think a little social drinking to promote good fellowship does any harm?

      BG…
      Of course it does. Can you be blind to the fact that one drink often leads to another? In every city I visit someone asks me to pray for a husband, or wife, or son who started as a social drinker and now has become an alcoholic. Today you think you have perfect self-control. But if you make a habit of drinking what will you do when you face anxiety or disappointment?
      You also have some responsibility for the welfare of your neighbor. Your example may lead him into a habit he cannot break. If you encourage him to do anything which brings his downfall, you are guilty. And don’t forget that alcohol is the cause of many of our traffic accidents, and a man who commits murder on the highway because his responses are slow, or he doesn’t see where he’s going, is guilty in the sight of God. Our bodies are the temples of our souls. We must treat them with respect. The Bible says: “Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God” (I Corinthians 10:31). This is a command no Christian should ignore.

      me…
      Many theologians and historians believe the wedding water into wine scene is interpreted as the fact that biblical water had to be cleaned or purified before it could be drank. This was done with what they had in the day-wine. Personally I wasn’t there so I don’t know but I trust the wisdom of John MacArthur (and many others) on this fact. I also don’t think Jesus would contribute to the delinquency of the wedding guests, therefore, I don’t think Jesus turned the water into “let’s get drunk” wine. I think he cleaned the water for the guests.

  14. withastone–I’m impressed that you were able to acknowledge that perhaps your tone lacked charity.

    I think when accusing people of not taking ethics or doctrine seriously and imply that YOU do while they don’t is much more dangerous than taking a light-hearted look at wine and good cheer in the context of scripture.

    It is reminiscent of logs and motes, frankly, though I’m, as I say, impressed with your ability to address your own tone, honestly.

    And the Sound Doctrine of Timothy–who gets to define that–I know where I derive my teaching and moral authority, but which of you can claim to having complete moral authority in scripture whereas the rest of us don’t?

    And in the Roman Catholic Church we have two traditions: high doctrine and low doctrine, both of which feed and nourish each other. The first is the teaching of the Church fathers as interpreted through the teaching body of the Magisterium.

    The second is the practical tradition of putting faith into practice amongst every day Christians, and how that practice has been passed on and put into play on a daily basis.

    They two cannot clash or contradict each other but they can certainly take on a difference in tone and sensibility.

    And as a final note on this entire debate, I’ll remind people that scripture has pharisees and saducees accusing Jesus and his discipleship of being drunkards.

    And finally, I don’t think it’s wrong to assume that the tone of discussion that occurs in a blog combox is it’s own animal. Maybe your frustration is pointing you toward higher discussion and academic endeavors elsewhere?

    I think it’s odd to expect so much of a blog, which by it’s nature is less formal and more casual than an academic or theological journal.

  15. Natalie, thanks for sharing that great verse. The word of God speaks volumes and I meant to post that verse in regards to the comments from the Sad Times for the Episcopal Church post a few weeks ago.

  16. Thank you so much for writing this post!
    I know that this is such a touchy subject for Christians. For me my family currently goes to an Assembly of God church and it’s almost a given that all things alcoholic is a sin. However, my family’s Jamaican where all things alcoholic are enjoyed, even by the Christian community. I agree with your conclusion fully and i’m glad you pointed out the fact that self-control IS a gift that God gave us to enjoy the things he has provided in this world without it becoming a bondage.

    I would just point out (and i’ve only skimmed through all the other comments so bare with me) that ‘sin,’ at a certain level, varies from person to person. With things such as alcohol- what might not be a sin for one brother may be a sin, or lead to sin, for another brother. 1 Corinthians 8 and Romans 14 can parallel this topic perfectly.

    The bottom line is that anything can become a sin if it produces guilt in the heart and we should be sensitive to the ‘weakness’ our brothers and sisters in Christ have.

    However, as Romans 14: 3&4 says, “The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.”

  17. Brett, Thanks for your post which, among other things, correctly points out that the Bible does not prohibit the consumption of alcohol.
    I really admire and appreciate John Piper’s position on this issue. Piper although a teetotaler himself (and one who recommend teetotaling) has strongly warned against legalism and affirmed the Bible does not prohibit the use of alcohol or require individuals to abstain. I think he gets to the more important issue in his “paraphrase” from the book of Galatians, “Neither circumcision or uncircumscion, neither teetotalism nor social drinking, neither legalism nor alcoholism is of any avail with God, but only a new creation (a new heart)” (Gal.6:15;5:6).
    Perhaps sometime in the future you could do a blog article on those who, as a matter of personal conviction, have elected to abstain from alcohol. Presumably a great majority of whom have made the decision not on a legalistic basis but on what they see as the pros and cons of alcohol consumption. Most have made the decision to abstain as a voluntary self-restriction and oppose mandating abstention for others.
    I’m sure there are plenty of Christian hipsters out there who as a matter of personal conviction do not imbibe. I would be interested to hear their rationale as a counterpoint to your position advocating the benefits and enjoyment of alcohol.

  18. Way to name check Chimay!

    I can’t remember which liturgy this came from, but my relatively high presbyterian church quotes “Blessed are you God, who gave wine to gladden the hearts of men” before serving communion.

  19. Oh, I should try to contribute to the discussion, as well. We should seek to be culturally informed by the Bible, not conservative social mores. If the Bible says, “God gave wine to gladden the heart of man.” then I can’t say that gift of God is bad. Corrupted by the fall, check. Deserving great reverence because of its potency, definitely – the Bible makes that clear as well.

  20. First of all: hehehehehehehehe.

    I hope that I did not drag the discussion below withastone’s standards too much with the above. After all, I think he makes some good points: some of Brett’s C.S.-Lewis-esque points have been made before, and if something created is always something good, we could discuss marijuana and crack cocaine on these levels too (which I wouldn’t be above doing either).

    Thanks Jeff for invoking John Piper, who I also like to invoke as the uber-serious theological father of our day from time to time (and I mean that in a very respectful way).

    I am not drunk; I abstained two nights ago on a flight between New York and Paris. I abstained on my first night in Lyon. And now the question remains: should I refrain from drinking any alcohol while here, out of a desire to keep from doing stupid things,save money, avoid the judgment of others, and prove to myself that I have (through the Spirit) that much self-discipline? Or, would it be a greater crime to let perfectly good French wine go untasted while I’m here?

    I have no idea.

    • Forget about my standards, Betsi. There is a point, independent of my standards, in the air here which no one is addressing and which you touch on again: “if something created is always something good, we could discuss marijuana and crack cocaine on these levels too…” Can we really say crack is created? It’s a combination of created goods and human ingenuity, right? So something more complex has to go on here than just identifying it as part of creation. It seems to me that, as it stands, the argument above that identifies something as part of creation, declares it good by fiat and concludes it’s ok in moderation could be applied to *anything* – alcohol, crack or whatever. Obviously there must be some other standards involved in this kind of argument, no? Else how does the line of reasoning avoid being vacuous? More importantly, how does the argument avoid being a cover for the imposition of our personal tastes (those things which we can only really express by saying they ‘just *are* good’) on our ethics?

  21. And by the way, I didn’t mean to suggest that I am open to smoking pot or crack–just that I am open to discussing them.
    Ha.

  22. Cocaine is a concentration of the coca leaf which is a part of creation and has healthful properties. Cocaine and its even more insidious form “crack” are simply human avarice and gluttony driving a natural part of created goodness to an extreme. The same thing could be said of distilled spirits–and its why some people choose to stay from them, they are potent and make one prone to excess.

    It’s a simple concept, really. Creation is good. Man’s appetites are good–but only when put in service of Will and Reason.

    Discernment is required, under the guidance of those with spiritual authority, and through the Divine guidance of scripture and prayer. But wine, beer, the coca leaf–etc. they are part of created goodness. God saw what he created and he saw that it was good. Period.

    That we are subject to abusing the beauty of creation, of taking it for granted, using it to serve our own concupiscence, is the story of humanity from the beginning.

    And concupiscence, by the way, etymologically means toward the good.

    Even our twisted desires are really an over-reaching for the good.

    CS Lewis has written thoughtfully and clearly about this: all vice is simply a virtue that made a left hand turn.

    And I think was GK Chesterton who wrote that the man who is knocking on the whorehouse door is looking for God.

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  25. I still don’t get the discussion, but that may be cultural. Here in belgium almost everybody drinks alcohol (including most christians I know) but we don’t have a word for binch-drinking in our language (and I had never heard of the concept before someone coming from the US of A explained it to me…) I won’t say that we donet have alcoholics and problems with alchohol, but our culture is a bit bourgondic, and so we like to enjoy our belgian beers (and french wines) like the mentioned Chimay (brewed by trappist monks btw) which is a great beer, but you have to treat it with respect…
    I suppose if you’d drink it like a cheap bear you drink just to get drunk, you’ll be in big trouble… I’ve seen americans, not used to belgian beers, who didn’t know what happened when they tried duvel without listening to our warning…

    I’ve also read the relevant article bubba mentioned, and I found his argument about moral relativism a bit troubling. He didn’t seem to recognise that in some context total abstination is the best idea (ask william Booth..)

    But in the end we all know our limits with alcohol, don’t we? Do we even need a bible to know when we’ve had too much if we’re honest??

    shalom

    Bram

  26. The Bible does say we are to be sober so I think that is a guideline for how much to drink.

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  28. Really late arrival here. Don’t know if anyone’s still keeping up.

    @ blognerd – You say “Creation is good. Man’s appetites are good..” I believe that the Bible states that Creation is fallen and man’s appetite is for sinful behavior. It’s only through the Holy Spirit that we are able to encounter the “good”. Activities, relationships, and created materials may provoke feelings of happiness and goodness in us but apart from Christ they are dross.

    It seems that we’re asking the question: is alcohol bad? I don’t believe that any inanimate substance/object is good or bad. It has no inherent morality. So the morality only enters the equation in regards to our interaction with these substances/objects.

    To answer your question Brett, I believe consuming alcohol becomes sinful when it reaches the level of idolatry. When alcohol takes a higher place of importance than our Savior. That’s just my personal outlook.

  29. Luke: thanks for reminding me about the need for Christ’s redemption. That is indeed important.

    But in the Catholic tradition we are taught (based on scriptures) that creation is an extension of God’s goodness. It was an ancient heresy that taught that the material and the world was evil and only God and spirit were good.

    God created the world so there is much that is good in it and should be enjoyed in proper order:

    299 Because God creates through wisdom, his creation is ordered: “You have arranged all things by measure and number and weight.” The universe, created in and by the eternal Word, the “image of the invisible God”, is destined for and addressed to man, himself created in the “image of God” and called to a personal relationship with God. Our human understanding, which shares in the light of the divine intellect, can understand what God tells us by means of his creation, though not without great effort and only in a spirit of humility and respect before the Creator and his work. Because creation comes forth from God’s goodness, it shares in that goodness – “And God saw that it was good. . . very good”- for God willed creation as a gift addressed to man, an inheritance destined for and entrusted to him. On many occasions the Church has had to defend the goodness of creation, including that of the physical world.

  30. Thanks Jennifer. I’m wondering where in Scripture you read about post-Fall creation being an extension of God’s goodness. I guess I’m thinking of it from the perspective of God cursing the ground and the animals when Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden in Genesis 3.

    Specifically verse 14 when the snake is cursed more than cattle and other beasts of the field and verse 17 when God curses the ground for Adam’s sake. Creation certainly was good, as were Adam and Eve. But the Scriptures seem to be telling us that when mankind fell, so fell Creation. The good news is that both we and the Earth will be remade, perfect and complete one glorious day!

  31. I’m here very late to the discussion, but I wonder why no one has taken issue with this assertion: The Bible is clear that drunkenness is a sin. I merely wonder, if drunkenness is itself a sin, why then did Jesus provide wine to wedding guests who ‘have had too much to drink’ (NIV)? Wouldn’t he be facilitating sin?

  32. Interesting point, Tim. It also leads one to ponder: what kind of marvelous, wondrous, enchanted kind of drunk, the wine Jesus wrought would have been? LOL

  33. A long serving constable in the Canada’s Vancouver Police Department has been arrested for impaired driving in Burnaby. The VPD aren’t releasing many details about the officer at this point, including his age or identity. .The off-duty officer was stopped at a roadblock on the Trans Canada Highway early Sunday morning by the RCMP’s Port Mann highway patrol.. What they are still rewarding, covering him too for his drunk driving?

    Federal Conservative Politicians also seem to like to preach about law and order, conserving the good family values, but do they practice what they preach now to others in reality? Do they themselves support alcoholic beverages now as well? The liberal Christian & Missionary Alliance Church itself, PM Stephen Harper’s own church now, contrary to the fundamental evangelical Baptists and Pentecostals churches it does not openly prohibit the drinking of wine or smoking, or divorce.

    Many EVANGELICAL Fundamentalist believe that all true professing evangelical Christians are or are to be total abstainers from alcohol, and IN A FALSE DENIAL, A FALSE UNBELIEF they refuse to admit the reality that some professing Christians, Christian leaders still do get drunk, drink alcohol such as Canada’s Prime Minister. Why? the shock they have been lied too is too much for a start..

    Drinking alcohol cause permanent brain damage, it also causes a significant deterioration of one’s mental capabilities, deterioration of one’s inter personal relationship skills, it also causes more car accidents than speeding or not having adequate winter tires, it also reduces significantly one’s work productivity as well undeniably too. It has ruined many families as well. So do please tell us all now:

    – How much money did the Prime Minister, the Premiers themselves now spend on Alcoholic consumption entertainment last year,
    – How Much money did the federal, provincial cabinet ministers now spend on Alcoholic consumption entertainment last year
    – How much money did the civil and public servants now spend on Alcoholic consumption entertainment last year

    http://postedat.wordpress.com/2009/08/31/get-real-now/

  34. However, the relationship is not just a mechanical one. ,

  35. Thin-film PV modules use very little semiconductor material. ,

  36. It’s OK to still feel like a schoolgirl around himI bumped into him recently for the first time in months. ,

  37. Figure 2 shows how the memory manager maps virtual memory to physical memory. ,

  38. Pingback: Best of the Blog’s First Five Years | The Search

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